Trump v. Pope Leo XIV? Where Do Washington and Rome Go From Here?

The following is an excerpt of Daily Signal Politics Editor Bradley Devlin’s interview with Paul Kengor, editor of The American Spectator and author of the new book “American Pontiff,” for the “Signal Sitdown,” which premieres on the Daily Signal’s YouTube page at 6:30 a.m. EDT on July 8.

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Bradley Devlin: We’re a year into this papacy now. A year of an American pope, Pope Leo XIV. Where do things stand? What major moves have been made? 

Paul Kengor: One of the things that I predicted—it wasn’t much of a prediction, right? The people that elected Robert Francis Prevost—and the election—well, first of all, the fact that an American pontiff, an American, was chosen pope was just astonishing, right? Completely astonishing. But as I started doing research and we got information, especially from Vaticanistas, Italian journalists and so forth, the overwhelming desire of the College of Cardinals—and there were 135 of them that were voting cardinals; 133 actually made it to the conclave—this would have been May 7, 2025. 

They all wanted stability and normalcy brought back to the papacy, right? After 12 years of Francis, everybody—whether they were liberal, conservative, moderate—were all tired of the chaos and division. There was a lack of peace in the Church, right? And it’s very telling that his first words when he walks out onto the loggia May 8, 2025, were, “Peace.” 

In fact, in Italian, “La pace sia con tutti voi,” “Peace be with all of you.” I’ll never forget that because first he walks out, and I’m astonished, right? I was at our office at The American Spectator. We were preparing for an event that night—in fact, I think you were probably at the event. And the white smoke went up—fourth ballot—so within about 24 hours, right, we had a habemus papam. We had a pope. 

Everybody thought this was going to go through the weekend, right? So at that point you think, “OK, it must have been somebody like Cardinal Parolin or Tagle from the Philippines.” Instead, walking out was, what, an American of all things. 

First the protodeacon, Mamberti, comes out and says the name, right? “Roberto.” At that point I thought, “Wow, they picked Robert Sarah.” Then he said, “Francesco,” and I thought, “I have no idea who this is.” Then he said, “Prevost.” Then the translator said, “An American, Robert Francis Prevost.” 

I’m standing there with Leonora Cravatta and Steve Kaputska from The American Spectator, and they’re like, “Well, what do you think?” And I was speechless. I knew nothing about him—absolutely nothing. 

We wait a little bit, and then he walks out. I remember thinking, “Wow, he looks like a pope, first of all.” Francis came out in all white. This is part of the answer to your question, too. Right away he’s dressed traditionally. He’s dressed like the way Benedict XVI came out—Cardinal Ratzinger—the way Karol Wojtyla came out in 1978, John Paul II. 

So that itself is different. Then he comes out, walks up to the microphone, and puts his hands under his chin kind of pensively, prayerfully. I’ve since found out from people who went to school with him in little Dolton, Illinois, that he was very devout, very pious. He would always put his hands under his chin and pray like that. They called him “Holy,” right? That was like his nickname. Not to ridicule. She said he wasn’t weird. Everybody liked him. He was nice, kind, but genuinely pious and holy. 

So he comes out, and I could tell he’s thinking. He swallows, taking in the moment. Everyone’s thinking, “What’s going to be the first words?” He says, “La pace sia con tutti voi.” If you had scripted it, I couldn’t think of a better phrase after 12 years of a lack of peace under Francis. 

They voted that way, and we now know that in the first round of voting, the top three vote-getters were [Cardinal Péter] Erdő from Hungary, [Cardinal Pietro] Parolin, and Prevost. 

Bradley Devlin: Parolin was the establishment pick. He was the secretary of state of the Vatican, essentially. And Erdő was kind of this conservative outsider challenger who had made a name for himself in Budapest, being a conservative countermeasure to some of the things the Francis pontificate was doing. There was clearly an appetite for that in the College of Cardinals from what you’re describing. 

Paul Kengor: Yeah. They were in almost a three-way tie. Erdő made a strong showing for conservatives, Parolin did OK, and Prevost was in that mix. Once you start getting votes, everyone notices. 

From there, Parolin hit his ceiling—somewhere in the range of 40 to 60 votes. Prevost, the candidate everybody saw as stable, sensible, moderate in temperament, orthodox in belief, just took off. By the fourth ballot, he had about 108 votes out of 133. A landslide. 

Everybody—from liberal Jesuit priest Father James Martin to Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke—said people were hungering for someone to bring back normalcy. 

After a year of the papacy, things have slowly moved back toward normal. 

Bradley Devlin: He chose the name Pope Leo XIV because of the AI revolution we’re on the cusp of. Pope Leo XIII guided the Church through the Industrial Revolution. Why does he see AI as something the Church needs to watch closely? 

Paul Kengor: As a theologian, he wants to help guide the flock through change. He’s also a man of science—a mathematician. At Villanova, he majored in math. 

Mathematicians believe in absolutes. Two plus two equals four. There’s order. There’s design. You’re not going to get relativistic math. That mindset shapes how he approaches issues like AI. 

He’s interested in astronomy, science. He’s an ideal pope to deal with a challenge like artificial intelligence. 

Bradley Devlin: It’s interesting because his stance on AI is similar to the Trump administration. Not Luddite—innovation is natural and necessary—but it must be guided and scrutinized. 

The focus recently, though, has been immigration and foreign policy. What efforts have been made to find common ground between the Vatican and the Trump administration? 

Paul Kengor: It began immediately. The formal installation of the pope came May 18, 2025. The next day, he met with Rubio and Vance. 

The image of that meeting is striking—three men smiling. You think one of them must have said, “None of us imagined we’d be here a year ago.” 

They’ll continue building that relationship. Eventually he’ll meet with Trump as well. 

This pope is diplomatic. He’ll meet with anyone. And like Trump’s meeting with Pope Francis, which many expected to be confrontational but turned cordial, this relationship will likely develop positively over time. 

This will get better.